A new reason to close: insufficient effort or elaboration

Question

Our site has had questions that show insufficient research. Often they are translation questions with not enough input from the OP. They should have consulted a dictionary, the should have tried to translate themselves or make it clear that they don't know enough Latin to do so, they should explain more carefully what they want to mean. Such questions need to be closed, but they can be reopened once the OP elaborates or does some homework.

How should the closing reason be worded? It has to be 25–400 characters, including any links to help pages or meta discussions. (We can have up to three custom reasons to close. We currently have zero.)

Currently such questions can be closed as off-topic (our guidelines do require effort) or unclear (without elaboration it's hard to tell what the OP is after), but neither of these reasons communicate the common problem of insufficient effort clearly enough.

It would be great if the text could include (as much as possible of) the following aspects:

• It's hard to translate a phrase without context. Please explain what you want the text to mean.
• Once you clarify your question, it can be reopened. Nothing irreversible has happened.
• If you have tried translating (or other) yourself, show us your attempt and tell what you are unsure about.
• At least consult an online Latin dictionary to find good translations for you key words. We can help you put them together in a sentence.
• Links to relevant material, like our dictionary list or help pages.

Most such questions seem to be translation questions, but I think the description should make sense more broadly even if it focuses on translation. Feel free to write your suggestion in any way whatsoever; these were just my thoughts on what might be good to include.

If you think the reason to close should be specific to translation questions, that's fine. We can have three custom reasons to close, and more details can always be given in comments when closing due to a rarer problem, so specificity is not an issue. Or perhaps the closure reason should focus more on elaborating on what is needed than on requiring research. Please share suggestions and ideas!

Answer 1

I feel that such a closing-reason would be much too broad. This new reason would seem to assume that we require that questions show substantial research has been done. So far, we have not required this at all. In fact, many questions in our top 10 of all times with the most votes show no substantial research. So this would be a major change in policy.

In case this was not the intended meaning of the closing-reason as it was phrased, I think new closing reasons should only be created for sufficient causes: that is, "off topic" is a good closing reason, because being off topic is enough reason for a question to be closed. However, "not enough research" is not a sufficient cause as it stands.

If we do want to require research, I would propose that we limit this requirement to certain types of questions that have given us problems, as we already do with translation requests.

A few examples of fine questions without substantial research:

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• 54 net votes - Are “-que” and “et” equivalent?

The full body of the question:

I was taught that one can use the '-que' suffix to string together multiple words, in a similar way to putting 'et' between them.

Are these two equivalent? Did one have a connotation in classical (Caesar-era) Latin that the other didn't?

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• 44 - Why is the language of ancient Rome called “Latin” instead of “Roman”?

Nearly every human language is named after the people who spoke it, from ancient Egyptian, Hebrew and Greek, to modern tongues such as English, German and Chinese. And then we have the language of the ancient Romans: Latin. Why do we call it that, rather than "Roman"?

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• 41 - Why is “ille” used in Winnie ille Pu and Hobbitus Ille?

I learned early on that Latin has no articles. So why is it, then, that Winnie the Pooh and The Hobbit are translated Winnie ille Pu and Hobbitus Ille?

Wouldn't it be more correct to not translate the article? What is the justification for including ille in these book titles?

Answer 2

Here is yet another suggestion, which is based on extended discussions with Cerberus and his answer. I propose adding two reasons to close:

1. Insufficient context:

   Your question has been put on hold for insufficient context. If you edit your question to elaborate on it, it can be reopened. Are you unsure about something specific? Where does the text you are translating come from or what is it supposed to convey? What is the context of the text or word you are working with?

2. General reference:

   Your question has been put on hold as a general reference question. It appears to be easily answerable using online Latin dictionaries or other such sources. Which sources (including older questions on this site) have you researched and how do they fail to answer your question? Is there something confusing in the sources you have consulted?

A key idea here is that the closing reasons come with explicit questions whose answers will clarify a question. Therefore I find these superior to the standard "unclear what you are asking" reason although the underlying reason to close can fall in that category. To me this is greatly a matter of communication.

We can of course have meta discussions about the specifics of any new reasons to close, and the banners can be edited to include a link. But at first I would like not to regulate too much and see how things go with people judging freely. I want to form a policy by voting to close and keep open before codifying the policy in too much detail. I trust our users with closing privileges to judge well. Should abuse of closing arise at some point, the closing reasons can be revoked if a meta discussion is not enough, so no permanent damage can be done.

Answer 3

To throw in my two cents, now that more low-effort questions are appearing:

Latin Language SE is for specific questions of general interest, and to help you learn and understand. Thus, questions requesting translation or explanation without research effort will be closed as off-topic. If you elaborate on your question, it can be reopened: What have you tried? What specific parts are you having difficulty with? And what have you found already?

Answer 4

Here is a list of what I see on other similar SE's, who also seem to share our desire to discourage low-level "translate X for me" questions.

All of these close reasons are under "Off topic because...":

• German.SE

  German Language SE is for specific questions of general interest and to help you learn and understand. Thus, requests for proofreading, spell checking or translations of individual texts are not a good fit here. If you can, please narrow down your question to a single specific source of concern. See this post on Meta for more information.

• French.SE

  We are not a text translation or proofreading service. If you're translating into French, be specific about the word or expression you want help with, and explain the meaning and provide context. If you're asking about the correctness of a sentence, tell us which specific word or construction you are unsure about.

• Chinese.SE, Spanish.SE, and Russian.SE

  Questions asking for translations are off-topic unless prior research effort is clearly indicated; we're here to help you learn, not provide a bulk translation service.

Italian.SE and Portuguese.SE does not have a specific reason for this.

In my opinion, the French message does not seem to hit the bar set by our community, which in addition to specificity requires research effort. The boilerplate message adopted by many other sites is pretty terse and discouraging, especially since we wish to be a welcoming community.

I like the tone of the German message, but think it should be adapted a little, since we do allow translation questions that show research effort:

Latin Language SE is for specific questions of general interest and to help you learn and understand. Thus, questions asking for translations without prior research effort are off-topic. If you can, please narrow down your question to a single specific source of concern. See this post on Meta for more information.

Answer 5

We must acknowledge that Latin is the main language for producing mottos or short phrases (rings, tattoos, etc), and we get tons of questions like that. We must not pretend people know about Latin, as most don't. Asking for "research effort", e.g. a personal translation well analysed throughout might be asking too much. As long as they provide one from an online translator (e.g. Google Translate), I would be satisfied.

Perhaps we must state that at least one translation is required. "Research effort" is too strong. If mottos were traditionally written in Chinese and I just want a simple one, I would not try to create one myself if I know nothing of Chinese. The best I would do is to ask in a forum, providing the one given by an online translator (like Google Translate). Asking me for "research effort" when it comes to a language I know nothing about sounds scary.

So, my phrase for the off-topic message would be something like yours, but also stating a phrase like

Questions asking for translation that do not offer a suggested translation will be closed as off-topic.